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Author Topic: Exercise for John Doe, and anyone else who wants to participate...
Posts: 2690
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Post Exercise for John Doe, and anyone else who wants to participate...
on: January 31, 2017, 01:53

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4:

CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.62, PFR: 16.15, 3Bet Preflop: 7.38, Hands: 722)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 24.16, PFR: 18.27, 3Bet Preflop: 5.97, Hands: 647)
Hero (SB): 209.92 BB
BB: 145.84 BB (VPIP: 20.90, PFR: 16.19, 3Bet Preflop: 8.45, Hands: 365)
UTG: 101.28 BB (VPIP: 26.30, PFR: 23.93, 3Bet Preflop: 13.27, Hands: 671)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 2 cards
fold, CO raises to 2.48 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8.4 BB, fold, CO calls 5.92 BB

Flop : (17.8 BB, 2 players) 8h 3h Jd
Hero bets 8.44 BB, CO calls 8.44 BB

Turn : (34.68 BB, 2 players) Td
Hero bets 21.96 BB, CO calls 21.96 BB

River : (78.6 BB, 2 players) As
Hero bets 171.12 BB and is all-in, CO calls 61.2 BB and is all-in

CO shows: 2 cards.

Hero shows: 2 cards.

1) What is our range preflop?
1a) What is villains range? (Impossible to be too exact, just make best assumptions for villain)

2) From our preflop range, which hands fit into which categories on that flop?

3) Given that I cbet the flop, what is my range?
3a) Given that villain called, what is his range? (Again, best assumptions)

4) Taking the flop cbet range to the turn, which hands fit into which categories on that turn?

5) Given that I cbet the turn, what is my range?
5a) Given that villain called again, what is villains range? (Best assumptions)

6) Taking the turn barrelling range to the river, which hands fit into which categories on that river?

7) Given that I shoved, what is my range?
7a) Given that villain called the shove, what is villains range? (Best assumptions)

John Doe
Post Re: Exercise for John Doe, and anyone else who wants to participate...
on: February 21, 2017, 13:33

22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo+, KQo
1a)99-44, AQs-A9s, A5s, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo-AJo, KQo

2) board 8h 3h Jd
c1 : 88, 33, AJo, AJs, JTh, AA, KK, QQ
c2: TT, 99, 77, JTscd, A8scd, A3scd, 78s, 98s,
c3: T9h, Axh, t9 s, QTh. KTh,
c4: 22, 44, 55, 66, 67scd, KQscd, AK, scd and off suit

c1 : 88, 33, AJo, AJs, JTh, AA, KK, QQ and
c3: T9h, Axh, t9 s, QTh. KTh,
3a) 88, AQs-A9h, A5h, K9h+, Q9h+, J9h+, T8h+, 98h, 87h, 76h, AKo-AJo,

4) MOre to follow

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Post Re: Exercise for John Doe, and anyone else who wants to participate...
on: February 22, 2017, 03:13

#1 Seems fine to me.

#2 has 40 c1 hands and 16 c3 hands. Is this the correct ratio for the situation? How do you figure out what is correct? Not really looking for perfect balance here, just making sure you are doing things correctly rather than just putting shit where it seems like it should go based solely on hand strength and composition.

Here is something I know you have not considered, and almost surely will not consider unless I bring it to your attention. Keep in mind that you need bluffs in the c3 range NOW that can still bluff the river when you get there. Think about this a little, when you are shipping the river, the worst hands you can have as bluffs are the ones that flopped draws and missed. Those are the hands that you want villain to have on the river, so if you're blocking those it is really bad for bluffing the river.

A hand like 5d6d is an excellent example of a flop c3 hand that is exactly what you're looking for in this instance. As it can turn a ton of equity on a variety of turn cards (any diamond, any 2, any 4, any 5, any 6, any 7 or any 9), but it doesn't block anything on the flop that you want villain to be folding on the river.

That is not to say that every small diamond connector automatically gets put into the c3 range. It only means that some do, how many depends on how many bluffs you need. The heart draws are still better, but there needs to be more than just heart draws, and you don't have as many heart draws as you think you do, because...

The Axs heart draws should almost always be c2, not c3. Check out the article at Upswing titled "20 Rules for Playing Flush Draws" or something similar. It is free and will tell you what to do with basically your entire range of flopped flush draws across all boards.

Posts: 2690
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Post Re: Exercise for John Doe, and anyone else who wants to participate...
on: February 22, 2017, 03:51

Something else to consider, and this is a lot to think about, I am aware of this, but I know you can handle it if you think it through...

I have a rhetorical question about the composition of your categories...

If the turn is a heart, and all of your c3 hands are flush draws, then what are you bluffing the turn with on a turned heart?

Please don't get tricked here, it isn't that hard, if you don't see the answer already, go back and think about all of the hands you get to the turn with - not just the c3 hands.

On each street, every hand in the range gets re-categorized. Hands that are c1 on this flop, or c2 on this flop, they might become c3 on some turns. And vice versa as well. It is also possible, though less likely, that c4 hands can come back to life on certain turns if and when villain checks behind on the flop.

Just making sure that you understand how wildly these categories might change from street to street on certain cards. This potential is usually noted as a board being "static" or "dynamic". Static boards don't change much, dynamic boards are likely to change.

This board is dynamic as the top end hands are going to change on most turn cards.

For example, your c1 AJo hands suck when any heart comes, any Q, any K, maybe any 9 or any T, or any 3 or any 8. There isn't much left that can come, unless the turn is an offsuit J or an offsuit A, the value of AJo is going to be heavily reduced, especially if it faces a raise on the turn after any of those cards.

However a hand like say AhJx has potential to be used as a bluff on those really bad runouts. It blocks the nut flush when any heart turns, and it draws to the nut flush as well. Plus the J blocks a ton of villains JT, J9, QJ, KJ type hands that stand to have improved when the board runs out scary. Picture villain holding QJ, turning an offsuit Q, and then having the 9h come on the river. You can ship that river with a great deal of confidence that you have significant fold equity on a flushed board that also contains 4 to a straight. The AhJx blocks everything as well as you could hope for. Yes, it might have some showdown equity, but oop on the river, making villain fold a hand you beat pays exactly the same as if the hand were checked down and it prevents villain from ever bluffing you with a worse hand on a scary board.

Note that I am not saying to start turning AJo into a river bluff all the time here. It is a very specific instance where this might be the best option. Usually we will be playing defensively oop, just trying to get to showdown. But on occasion, a dynamic board, and a scary run out provides opportunity to get a little creative with your thought process. Since we play micro stakes and nano stakes, it is also worth mentioning that even in that perfect scenario I described above, there is a decent probability that villain isn't going to fold QJ no matter what, in which case bluffing is futile, even if your hand is the perfect bluffing hand.

There are a ton of factors to this scenario, I'm just trying to make sure you understand how drastically things can change on these types of boards. Which is why I chose these types of boards. Static boards are much easier to deal with. If you can handle the thought process of dynamic boards, then static boards will bore you. I mean fuck, when the flop is QQ3 rainbow, and the shit starts hitting the fan, you either have a fucking queen (or better), or you don't, it's really that simple.

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